2006年4月19日 12:30 (21 個評論)
- rich
- 28, 英國
Recently i have been dragged into various posts on the religion and ethics forum.
there have been many posts (Mainly by Muslims) trying to play down the validity of the Bible. many of these posts totally take scripture out of context.
I began to get annoyed and i think i made a mistake by doing exactly as they were doing - by posting the errors contained within the Quran (Or do you think this was a mistake?)
it ultimately became a kind of tit for tat argument that kinda goes like this "I'm right" "No! youre wrong i'm right" etc etc.
I think to those not involved in either Christianity or Islam it probably looks like the same old age problem of religions fighting one another. I began to wonder if this is glorifying to God.
Maybe we should forget about the debate and just push the Christian virtues of love, forgiveness, grace, humility instead of arguing?
Or perhaps we should convey these attributes through our responses directly about the posts that have been made?
The thing is, most of those posts are of a cut and paste nature and VERY lengthy. they tend to have much information in them with many scripture references, most of them either mis-quoted or totally out of context.
it takes a lot of time and energy to fully answer these posts.
The thing that comes to mind is this:
If we dont answer them, they will think they are right and more importantly perhaps the general public will too. Perhaps Zorpia will become totally dominated by posts from Muslims?
So i put it to you: do we ignore their posts and just make ones promoting faith, hope and love, Jesus Christ and Him crucified, the resurrection, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, grace and power over personal sin (amongst the other pro points about Christianity)?
or do we all start reading up on these posts and intelligently trying to answer them, conveying the latter in our responses while rebuffing lies that have been preached?
the second response is hard work when only 2 or 3 of us are doing it. We all need to get more into our Bibles and have an answer for these people who totally mis-understand God and the work of the Christ.
WHICH DO YOU CHOOSE?
there have been many posts (Mainly by Muslims) trying to play down the validity of the Bible. many of these posts totally take scripture out of context.
I began to get annoyed and i think i made a mistake by doing exactly as they were doing - by posting the errors contained within the Quran (Or do you think this was a mistake?)
it ultimately became a kind of tit for tat argument that kinda goes like this "I'm right" "No! youre wrong i'm right" etc etc.
I think to those not involved in either Christianity or Islam it probably looks like the same old age problem of religions fighting one another. I began to wonder if this is glorifying to God.
Maybe we should forget about the debate and just push the Christian virtues of love, forgiveness, grace, humility instead of arguing?
Or perhaps we should convey these attributes through our responses directly about the posts that have been made?
The thing is, most of those posts are of a cut and paste nature and VERY lengthy. they tend to have much information in them with many scripture references, most of them either mis-quoted or totally out of context.
it takes a lot of time and energy to fully answer these posts.
The thing that comes to mind is this:
If we dont answer them, they will think they are right and more importantly perhaps the general public will too. Perhaps Zorpia will become totally dominated by posts from Muslims?
So i put it to you: do we ignore their posts and just make ones promoting faith, hope and love, Jesus Christ and Him crucified, the resurrection, the gifts of the Holy Spirit, grace and power over personal sin (amongst the other pro points about Christianity)?
or do we all start reading up on these posts and intelligently trying to answer them, conveying the latter in our responses while rebuffing lies that have been preached?
the second response is hard work when only 2 or 3 of us are doing it. We all need to get more into our Bibles and have an answer for these people who totally mis-understand God and the work of the Christ.
WHICH DO YOU CHOOSE?
2006年4月22日 10:3Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Angela
19, 奧克蘭, 紐西蘭
hmmmmm, thats a hard one, I think that there is no harm in posting our view and beliefs to these muslims, We are all humans and we all have differents beliefs values and feelings, We (christians) have the key to eternity which the Lord has blessed us with, and we are ambassadors for christ, continuing to put up posts does play its part in spreading the Gospel. If even one muslim reads it and is moved be the words posted that is still one soul that Jesus died for. Remember the story sbout sowing seeds. Well posting these messages are a way to sow seeds. By our faith in our saviour a difference can be made.
2006年4月22日 10:10Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Katie
27, 斯塔福德, 英國
Firstly there are certain topics that you do not dicuss in public forum one is relegion, the next is politics. The problem is that everyone confuses their opinion for fact in these cases. What you could do is realise that we all subscribe to the culture of humanity and at the core of this is kindness, tolerance and compassion. You can say what you want, but always treat others as you would like to be treated.
2006年4月22日 10:28Re: Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Angela
19, 奧克蘭, 紐西蘭
I agree that it is nessacary to treat others as you'd like to be treated, In fact I place no judgement on people with beliefs that differ to mine. I accept that some people feel that politics and religion are topics that should not be publically discussed but i think that if people want to discuss these issues then it is their right, if you don't like the topic then just leave it. Everyone has different topics that interests them and they should all be able to disscuss these issues with those who also want to discuss them.
2006年4月22日 14:8Re: Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
rich
28, 諾里奇, 英國
im sorry but i cant aggree with you at all.
where would the church be today if:
Christ had not preached in public: many examples in the gospels, most notably the sermon on the mount (Matt 5, Luke 6)
When Peter spoke on the day of Pentecost, preaching in public (Acts 2) 3000 people were saved because he was used to preach the gospel in a public place.
read in acts 8 onwards. many times the Apostle Paul was used to speak to many people in public, and yeah sometimes he upset people because they didnt want to have the Christ to rein over them, but many people were saved because of his ministry, used by God for His glory.
the posts i spoke about earlier are posted on the "religion and ethics" forum on zorpia, therefore they are set up for discussion about....."RELIGION AND ETHICS".
what you need to understand is that there are many people who will never set foot in a church and may not know any real Christians at all. bearing this in mind, the internet can be used in a massive way to speak to people concerning Jesus Christ. These message boards may be an opening for someone to speak to you one to one. They may read the message of hope that YOU have posted and come to you in a private messaeg wanting to hear more about the love of Christ.
next i would like to address this statement: "What you could do is realise that we all subscribe to the culture of humanity and at the core of this is kindness, tolerance and compassion"
why do you think that so many bad things happen in the world? it is because of SIN. all people are sinners (they sin because they are sinners, not the other way round), this means that all people have in some way at least once in their life offended God. sin is a curse. this world is cursed. Good things only come from God
with this being said, we need to strive, in the power of the Holy Spirit to try to reach people with the gospel of Christ in the hope that they will be set free from the curse, have their sins forgiven and be shown their place in heaven.
the ultimate aim of all Christians should be to disciple all nations (matt 28:19, luke 24:47), in the hope that they may be rescued from the punishment of their sins and HELL its self.
sure we should treat others as we wish to be treated. i am glad that someone thought it good that i should hear the gospel or where would i be now? and where would i be heading?
where would the church be today if:
Christ had not preached in public: many examples in the gospels, most notably the sermon on the mount (Matt 5, Luke 6)
When Peter spoke on the day of Pentecost, preaching in public (Acts 2) 3000 people were saved because he was used to preach the gospel in a public place.
read in acts 8 onwards. many times the Apostle Paul was used to speak to many people in public, and yeah sometimes he upset people because they didnt want to have the Christ to rein over them, but many people were saved because of his ministry, used by God for His glory.
the posts i spoke about earlier are posted on the "religion and ethics" forum on zorpia, therefore they are set up for discussion about....."RELIGION AND ETHICS".
what you need to understand is that there are many people who will never set foot in a church and may not know any real Christians at all. bearing this in mind, the internet can be used in a massive way to speak to people concerning Jesus Christ. These message boards may be an opening for someone to speak to you one to one. They may read the message of hope that YOU have posted and come to you in a private messaeg wanting to hear more about the love of Christ.
next i would like to address this statement: "What you could do is realise that we all subscribe to the culture of humanity and at the core of this is kindness, tolerance and compassion"
why do you think that so many bad things happen in the world? it is because of SIN. all people are sinners (they sin because they are sinners, not the other way round), this means that all people have in some way at least once in their life offended God. sin is a curse. this world is cursed. Good things only come from God
with this being said, we need to strive, in the power of the Holy Spirit to try to reach people with the gospel of Christ in the hope that they will be set free from the curse, have their sins forgiven and be shown their place in heaven.
the ultimate aim of all Christians should be to disciple all nations (matt 28:19, luke 24:47), in the hope that they may be rescued from the punishment of their sins and HELL its self.
sure we should treat others as we wish to be treated. i am glad that someone thought it good that i should hear the gospel or where would i be now? and where would i be heading?
2006年4月23日 9:6Re: Re: Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Angela
19, 奧克蘭, 紐西蘭
I actually really agree with Rich. If you found the cure to cancer would you keep it to yourself and not tell people even though it could save so many people? Of course not. We have found the key to eternal life and happiness... I love Jesus and I'm happy and I want others to experience what i have been privaledged enough to know. I want to share with people what is important to me... I will continue to share what i believe because i can and i deeply want to.
2009年7月4日 17:13Re:
GypsyMum
35, 美國
They sound like crying children who must make others see things their way.
Responding is hard work, and it is usless because they do not read or think over the replies we give in responce to their nonsence.
It is a cult and those online who try to draw others in have been deeply efected by the cult aspects of it.
I do not hink we can deprogram them online with replies.
Responding is hard work, and it is usless because they do not read or think over the replies we give in responce to their nonsence.
It is a cult and those online who try to draw others in have been deeply efected by the cult aspects of it.
I do not hink we can deprogram them online with replies.
2009年7月8日 23:56Re:
rene
49, 布拉克頓, 麻薩諸塞州, 美國
First off, I truly believe that the crust of the bible is true, that is to say that the message of Christ. being nailed on the cross, his raising from the dead, etc,etc is fact. Also, many things that happened were and are omitted for various reasons.And for those who say that the muslim religion is a cult, REALLY NEED TO ASK THEMSELVES A QUESTION, WHO DO YOU THINK YOU ARE BY MAKING SUCH A BROAD, AND IGNORANT STATEMENT !!!!!
2006年4月19日 16:56Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Juan Jose
22, 瓜地馬拉市, 瓜地馬拉
hey, i think the same, it's better if we explain them what the truth is, 'cause it's what God wants us to do, and if they don't want to hear or undersatand what are u saying, i would be totaly their own problem.
but the best is to be ready all the time so we can be a good example of what God does in our lives for those who don't know.
but the best is to be ready all the time so we can be a good example of what God does in our lives for those who don't know.
2006年4月20日 20:44Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Roxanne
30, 溫尼伯, 曼尼托巴, 加拿大
See 1 Peter 13: 15b-16 (I'm pretty sure that's the verse) which basically says to be ready to answer those who have questions, but to do so RESPECTFULLY and with GENTLENESS. Though most have adhered to the "preach with love" policy, which I completely concur with, there have been a few Christians who speak in condemnation toward the Muslim community. For starters, it's not our place to condemn nor imply that tone. Jesus is Judge alone. However, sometimes it might be hard not to depending on the argument because the Bible says, in short, without Jesus, hell is your only option.
Preach in love, friends. As a general rule, too, if a post angers you, do not reply right away but instead take some time (an hour even a day) to chill out then reply and then double check your reply to ensure it's courteous and professional. Replies written in anger will only yield angry-toned replies. Like the Bible says, "You will know them by their fruit" so let's let our fruit shine. :) I have to keep this in mind, too, and I bring this to you all privately in this little group because the Bible also says to correct your brothers and sisters privately first (take them aside, etc.). I'm not pointing fingers but mention this as a reminder to everyone here.
Regarding the issue of the Bible being attacked because of the errors in the text, I plan on posting something regarding the Bible's true inerrancy, explaining what inerrancy means and how the attacks against it actually hold no weight as a result. I'll be using the inerrancy guidelines used by scholars, theologians and historians, those who are in a position to declare what inerrancy really means as opposed to Joe Blow off the street. But it's a lengthy subject and it's tax season here so I have to do those first.
I agree with Rich in that the debates have turned into, basically, a "my dad can beat up your dad" kind of thing and that's too bad. I will say to those whose faith might have been shaken a bit by the length of the posts and the arguments put forth to not lose heart and cling to the truths of the Lord Jesus. Your faith is not in vain and do not let the enemy use others to plant doubt in your minds and/or hearts. That's exactly what he wants. Do not give in and don't give him an inch.
The evidence for Christianity as truth is overwhelming and enormous (hence the reason there's a million lengthy, lengthy books on the subject). Even on the grounds of simple logical deduction (though I realize there's more to believing than that), but in that very simple way, does it not make sense to take which has the most evidence to support it as true as the truth?
May the Lord's face shine upon you all.
Preach in love, friends. As a general rule, too, if a post angers you, do not reply right away but instead take some time (an hour even a day) to chill out then reply and then double check your reply to ensure it's courteous and professional. Replies written in anger will only yield angry-toned replies. Like the Bible says, "You will know them by their fruit" so let's let our fruit shine. :) I have to keep this in mind, too, and I bring this to you all privately in this little group because the Bible also says to correct your brothers and sisters privately first (take them aside, etc.). I'm not pointing fingers but mention this as a reminder to everyone here.
Regarding the issue of the Bible being attacked because of the errors in the text, I plan on posting something regarding the Bible's true inerrancy, explaining what inerrancy means and how the attacks against it actually hold no weight as a result. I'll be using the inerrancy guidelines used by scholars, theologians and historians, those who are in a position to declare what inerrancy really means as opposed to Joe Blow off the street. But it's a lengthy subject and it's tax season here so I have to do those first.
I agree with Rich in that the debates have turned into, basically, a "my dad can beat up your dad" kind of thing and that's too bad. I will say to those whose faith might have been shaken a bit by the length of the posts and the arguments put forth to not lose heart and cling to the truths of the Lord Jesus. Your faith is not in vain and do not let the enemy use others to plant doubt in your minds and/or hearts. That's exactly what he wants. Do not give in and don't give him an inch.
The evidence for Christianity as truth is overwhelming and enormous (hence the reason there's a million lengthy, lengthy books on the subject). Even on the grounds of simple logical deduction (though I realize there's more to believing than that), but in that very simple way, does it not make sense to take which has the most evidence to support it as true as the truth?
May the Lord's face shine upon you all.
2006年4月23日 7:34Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Michael
25, 佩思, 西澳大利亞, 澳大利亞
Well i know that soon we, as in all us Christians on Zorpia, are going to have a serious call to defend our faith due to the movie that is soon to be released on May 17 - 28 which you may know is The DaVinci Code. This movie claims that Jesus didn't die on the cross, married Mary Magdalene, had children by her who fled to France and married into the royal Merovingian bloodline.
When this movie is released it won't be about Muslims anymore. It will be about Jesus the Christ, or "Jesus the natural man". I think we should devote ourselves to preparing a response to this heavily Gnostic and unBiblical doctrine that permeates this film.
I hope and pray we all can only be ready for this.
Bless you all,
Mike.
When this movie is released it won't be about Muslims anymore. It will be about Jesus the Christ, or "Jesus the natural man". I think we should devote ourselves to preparing a response to this heavily Gnostic and unBiblical doctrine that permeates this film.
I hope and pray we all can only be ready for this.
Bless you all,
Mike.
2006年4月24日 7:16Re: Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
2006年4月24日 7:43Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
They have books on the subject, like "The Davinci Myth" or something. I have read some articles on it and Dan Brown's interpretation and theories, at least in his analyzing of the Last Supper painting, don't line up with historical record.
Maybe someone here wants to invest in a book? I'd like to but don't when funds can permit I can.
Maybe someone here wants to invest in a book? I'd like to but don't when funds can permit I can.
2006年5月5日 17:28Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Marvin
19, 貝魯特, 黎巴嫩
Thats right Micheal but how do we defend it... By showing them that we are as bad a as them... No we give them an invitation to christianity by showing jesus through us... Think what would Jesus do!!!. Answer with love in a way that makes them WANT to be christians. Dont repay evil with evil. Pray for those who curse you, Bless those who do wrong against you.
If u guys want to check more topics enter followers of Jesus
God bless you guys
If u guys want to check more topics enter followers of Jesus
God bless you guys
2006年5月5日 21:6Re: Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Michael
24, 德國
This indeed may work with those muslims who aren't that fanatic and brain-washed. Unfortunately there are lots of them who don't even take seriously what they are told.
When attacked on a verbal level we should answer by stating the truth and confonting them with it. When we are threatened in a physical way-e.g. terrorism,jihad and other attacks-we should fight back.
God helps those who try to help themselves. If we'd just sit down and wait and do nothing,we will be crushed by the enemy.
When attacked on a verbal level we should answer by stating the truth and confonting them with it. When we are threatened in a physical way-e.g. terrorism,jihad and other attacks-we should fight back.
God helps those who try to help themselves. If we'd just sit down and wait and do nothing,we will be crushed by the enemy.
2006年5月6日 1:4Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Millie
17, 奧克蘭, 紐西蘭
i seriously think that we shouldn't reply. Why do we have to justify our religion to them? If we do we will only be stooping to their level. Let them say what they want. there will always be non- believers in our world its not up to us to make them change. Its up to us to do god's will and follow in the footsteps of christ and preach our religion. If they don't accept it then we can't do anything for them. Its their own decision. God still loves them. All we should do is Love God and love our neighbours.
2006年5月6日 3:40Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?
Reply in love as we're commanded to in the book of Peter.
I just finished a private conversation with a Muslim. For some reason, I suddenly feel like I was set up for something. Pray for me and the situation guys, please. And please pray this person will see the truth, Who is Jesus Christ.
I just finished a private conversation with a Muslim. For some reason, I suddenly feel like I was set up for something. Pray for me and the situation guys, please. And please pray this person will see the truth, Who is Jesus Christ.
2006年4月19日 14:51Re: A call for all believers. what do you think?